#31
(18-09-2016, 08:39)Blackout330 Wrote: The thing is that snipers do work at ranges at 600m and beyond (that your average in-game sniper can't hit, supposing they usually can't hit an elephant point blanc).  Marksmen on the other hand work at ranges up to 400.
Snipers use bolt action rifles to hit those ranges and are specifically made to kill. Marksmen use accurized semi-automatics that give them more range but also allow them to rapid fire.

As such for most of INS' maps a sniper is overkill, especially adding the fact that snipers aren't even attached to squads and belong to their own recon squad with a spotter. In game they are virtually identical to a marksman, maybe even inferior as their loadouts encourage M40A1s, which are worse choices than M14s on all counts, from stats to teamplay value.

Removing the snipers and removing the bolt action rifles from the marksman's loadout will hopefully give marksmen a better chance to do well at long range, yet still be good at supportive roles. Because let's be honest, sniping is a selfish job most of the time.

I agree that bolt action snipers don't make much sense in the original Insurgency. However, with larger maps and a new game engine, range can definitely increase. And with that comes the necessity of higher accuracy, longer range weapons. Or at least usefulness.
I have a few hundred hours in the old insurgency, and the bolt action is usable (especially since I think they reduced the accuracy of the other 7x-scopable rifle for security) but certainly not nearly as good in 9.5/10 situations.
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#32
(24-03-2017, 02:52)MaulTheTroll Wrote: I agree that bolt action snipers don't make much sense in the original Insurgency. However, with larger maps and a new game engine, range can definitely increase. And with that comes the necessity of higher accuracy, longer range weapons. Or at least usefulness.
I have a few hundred hours in the old insurgency, and the bolt action is usable (especially since I think they reduced the accuracy of the other 7x-scopable rifle for security) but certainly not nearly as good in 9.5/10 situations.

I still don't see them being more viable unless we get kilometer-long engagement distances, which are rare even in Squad. They can simply remedy it by making designated marksmen rifles as accurate as they should be.
The SVD/PSL, Tabuk, G3/SG-1, M110, Mk 12 Mod 0 all would do pretty fine as choices for that kind of combat.
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#33
(19-09-2016, 09:48)Blackout330 Wrote:
(17-09-2016, 20:14)ImUrBoss Wrote: Sounds pretty good. But, I disagree with no snipers. For maps such as Buhriz, Panj, Sinjar, Peak, and Heights, snipers are necessary. And peoBolt actions are hard to use, and most snipers don't use them or use them badly. The reason I want to keep them is for the few actual people that can use them and are effective on the larger maps. If there will be a sniper class in Sandstorm (I hope) there should be 2 bolt action rifles and one semi auto. For marksman though, there probably should be semi autos.
Well I still rather as many boots on the ground as possible, there's a limit to how snipers can be effective on the frontlines. So the fewer the better.
While the bolt action rifles are certainly harder to use they possess absolutely no other benefit over the semi automatic marksmen rifles. In terms of accuracy all sniper rifles are made to be accurate to sub-MOA standards. In damage and range all they have the same calibre and do the same, and most militaries issue the same optic for both. In terms of rate of fire the semis trump it, and if you are worried about players finding you from your repeated shot signature, everyone who's played RO2 knows that it takes a disciplined rifleman to control it, and someone who can't control his fire shouldn't be sniping at all.

So to stay on the safe side since bolt action rifles somehow keep drawing the worst players (at least in the South East Asian side) it'd be safer to just scrap them in their entirety since marksmen rifles can do the same job better.
Furthermore marksmen are also issued intermediate cartridge marksmen rifles (SAM-R, SDM-R, Tabuk, Mk 12 SPR) and this will give marksmen a further edge in terms of versatility.
Hence I still think that with 1 marksman in the team it can easily displace snipers since the snipers in game perform a marksman job anyway.

Bolt action rifles have a more defined role in real life than in videogames due to engagement distance. If you are saying that there is no point in using a bolt action SR in real life you are dead wrong, unless they are specially machined rifles, semi-auto rifles will loose accuracy around 800 meters due to chamber pressure not being constant and mechanic fatigue. Meanwhile most military grade bolt action SRs will get to 1500 meters no problem(obviously more work for the shooter at those ranges). Also, at further ranges most high powered semi-auto rifles(mostly .338 Lapuas) ar used with bolt catches so that the sniper can manually close the chamber to ensure precision.

As an end note, at 800 meters you can't take consecutive shots(less than 8s intervals between shots), otherwise they'll be all over the place, so the semi-auto advantage is not really there. Also, I dare you to take a full 20 clip of .338 and fire them in semi auto. The next day you'll be looking for the part of your arm that fell off, if not the same evening.

Now, if you are talking game-wise, each time I see people running around with M40s with EoTechs in coop I die a little inside. Also, people usually don't know how to properly position themselves(district is the perfect example of this, with people laying about in the middle of the road). It's a shame there aren't traps that snipers can place nearby sniping spots, even noise making ones.
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#34
(19-05-2017, 03:57)GarnetSan Wrote: ~snip~
Yea you're spot on, I never said they were irrelevant in the real world context though, they are used for ranges outside what the game will most likely show. And furthermore in a game context a sub-MOA semi sniper rifle will always outperform a bolt action rifle simply because of how recoil is represented and other gamey stuff.

People using bolt action rifles, whether with EOTechs or Leupolds always find themselves in the wrong engagement distances that is Insurgency.
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